Curse

Bryant Again · Nov 28, 2007, 09:08 PM // 21:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Isileth

Solo play is much less viable due to enforced limitations.

Seconding Minera on this: H/Hing is fine, easily doable, and much less of a hassle (and strangely a higher survival rate, experience varies) than a PUG.

Having to focus around the builds of the henchmen is just one of the things that we have to sacrifice when going solo. Some people want more, though. I'm thankful for everything that we get coming from ANet.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Isileth

I do have to disagree with elite areas should be for players only however. There is no reason someone who plays solo should be considered less of a player.

Here's a viewpoint on it:

A lot of people consider grouping and playing with others to be exceedingly difficult. So why not make what're supposedly the hardest areas in the game harder?

That aside, you can still group up by joining with people to find a schedule via this forum or whatnot. You will have to set aside some time for it and work a bit harder, but it's all what you want to do.

Sleeper Service · Nov 28, 2007, 09:13 PM // 21:13

An article i stumbled across, seemed fairly pertinent to the 7Hero demand.

http://www.massively.com/2007/11/28/...ehaving-badly/

Isileth · Nov 28, 2007, 09:21 PM // 21:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

Seconding Minera on this: H/Hing is fine, easily doable, and much less of a hassle (and strangely a higher survival rate, experience varies) than a PUG.

Having to focus around the builds of the henchmen is just one of the things that we have to sacrifice when going solo. Some people want more, though. I'm thankful for everything that we get coming from ANet.

Your missing a lot of the problem right there. Its not all about ease, success rate etc.

And of course its great Anet has given us 3 heroes already.
I must just add in here, people suggest stuff they think will improve the game. No one is saying Anet owes us X and Y. I think 7 heroes would improve the game thats why im posting in this thread.

So please dont misunderstand it to be about us demanding Anet gives us more content or whatever. This is just something a lot of people think will improve the game.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

Here's a viewpoint on it:

A lot of people consider grouping and playing with others to be exceedingly difficult. So why not make what're supposedly the hardest areas in the game harder?

If people want to group for areas they can, no one here wants to stop that.
However limiting an area to just those is stupid. It doesnt make it any harder for those PuGing. It doesnt make it any easier if you allow solo players.

Your also suggesting that using 7 heroes makes the game easier again. Unless you are saying the process of finding a team is skillful....

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

That aside, you can still group up by joining with people to find a schedule via this forum or whatnot. You will have to set aside some time for it and work a bit harder, but it's all what you want to do.

1) You shouldnt have to arrange to play a game
2) This still doesnt solve it for people who go afk often
3) Still forcing people to PuG if they dont want to

The only way solo play willl be at the same level as PuGing is if the player can change all 8 builds.

Vinraith · Nov 28, 2007, 09:47 PM // 21:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sleeper Service

An article i stumbled across, seemed fairly pertinent to the 7Hero demand.

http://www.massively.com/2007/11/28/...ehaving-badly/

That article nicely details one of the (many) reasons I don't play MMO's. The sad fact is that as gaming becomes more mainstream, it caters more and more to a previously non-gamer crowd. It's kind of interesting to me, though predictable, that while gaming is reaching more people than ever there are fewer and fewer games on the market worth playing (and they're getting harder and harder to find). I have this sense that in 10 years I'm going to be buying games almost exclusively from indie developers that still support SP play, because the mainstream will have gone completely to the "you must play with others all the time" model.

Bryant Again · Nov 28, 2007, 10:41 PM // 22:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Isileth

Your missing a lot of the problem right there. Its not all about ease, success rate etc.

I'm actually including this because some think it is.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Isileth

*Big snip* This is just something a lot of people think will improve the game.

Likewise, it's something many think can and will kill it. Both sides have provided the same amount of evidence (further proof that ANet shouldn't do anything about it.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Isileth

However limiting an area to just those is stupid. It doesnt make it any harder for those PuGing. It doesnt make it any easier if you allow solo players.

Maybe it's ANet's gentle nudge to get you to play with people? I mean the areas *are* optional.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Isileth

Your also suggesting that using 7 heroes makes the game easier again.

I won't deny that it makes it more convenient, and that is one of the most prominent reasons people use them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Isileth

Unless you are saying the process of finding a team is skillful....

As I've said before: If given the choice, most people would rather play with a group of people rather than a group of heroes for elite areas.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Isileth

1) You shouldnt have to arrange to play a game
2) This still doesnt solve it for people who go afk often
3) Still forcing people to PuG if they dont want to

1) Yet a lot of people do (see: WoW.)
2) People will divide on what is the real problem here: The fact that you can't go AFK very often or the fact that you *do* go AFK very often. Of course RL > Games, others will think that you should limit what you have to do.
3) No ones forcing you to do the elite missions and they're not tied to any title.

Isileth · Nov 28, 2007, 11:13 PM // 23:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

Maybe it's ANet's gentle nudge to get you to play with people? I mean the areas *are* optional.

This is very much like "need" in that the whole game is optional. You cant use it in an argument simply because everything is optional.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

I won't deny that it makes it more convenient, and that is one of the most prominent reasons people use them.

Convenient, more accessable etc thats one of the reasons behind this. But it certainly doesnt make the game easier. It just makes getting a team quicker.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

As I've said before: If given the choice, most people would rather play with a group of people rather than a group of heroes for elite areas.

Well right now people arent given a choice.
And if most people would choose to go with players...whats the harm in allowing solo players to access it as well?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

1) Yet a lot of people do (see: WoW.)

Well WoW is a MMORPG and a whole different kettle of fish.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

2) People will divide on what is the real problem here: The fact that you can't go AFK very often or the fact that you *do* go AFK very often. Of course RL > Games, others will think that you should limit what you have to do.

Lets skip past the point I wouldnt have purchased the game had it not said I could play solo.
So im in a PuG. I have to go afk for 15 mins.
1)Is that really fair on the other players in my group? Of course it isnt, these are other people trying to have fun in a game. Having to sit doing nothing for 15 mins because some selfish jackass joined your team then had to go afk isnt fun.
2)Are they going to sit around and wait for me? More than likely no, while people will wait for someone grabbing the phone or getting a quick drink no one wants to sit and wait for someone without even knowing when they will be back.

So pretty much without the ability to go solo I would be stuck trying to get a team that would wait for me, all the while ruining the game for others.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

3) No ones forcing you to do the elite missions and they're not tied to any title.

Again we fall into the murky waters of need, optional etc.
No one is forcing people to play the game at all. As it is, I very much enjoy GW. I would like to be able to play more of it. Adding 7 heroes would allow me to do that.

Bryant Again · Nov 28, 2007, 11:52 PM // 23:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Isileth

This is very much like "need" in that the whole game is optional. You cant use it in an argument simply because everything is optional.

Do you need to do any of the elite missions before you can go onto the next? That is a negative. In terms of progressing the game, and progression being one of the satisfying aspects of the game to many, they are not essential.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Isileth

And if most people would choose to go with players...whats the harm in allowing solo players to access it as well?

Right now? To avoid mass QQing. It's not like normal areas where the builds you can bring are pretty open, elite areas can often require very strict builds, a role henchmen can't really provide. Besides that I've already stated the reason.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Isileth

]Well WoW is a MMORPG and a whole different kettle of fish.

Due to the way most people play through an elite mission (especially Urgoz and the Deep,) it's actually more similar to a raid in WoW. The comparison is safer than you'd think.

Quote:

So im in a PuG. I have to go afk for 15 mins...

1) What is it that called you to have to go afk for 15 minutes?
2) I think a guild group wouldn't mind, but a PUG group probably would. Repeated instances like this, however, might annoy them.

bhavv · Nov 29, 2007, 12:09 AM // 00:09

I play maple story now and its completely free and solo-able, and it has a market for trading!!!

Maple Story = Win

Guild Wars = fail.

Bye bye Arena Net, your game used to be fun.

dont feel no pain · Nov 29, 2007, 12:25 AM // 00:25

having at least 2 of each proffesion makes it easier to do different builds =] so yeah i dont complain

Mineria · Nov 30, 2007, 01:28 PM // 13:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Isileth

I wouldnt have purchased the game had it not said I could play solo.

Playing solo is exactly what you can do, except for a few after beating the game things.
You can even play real solo with good builds.
Btw. didn't Anet make Slavers Exile so you can h+h it?
Takes some time, but it can be done.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Isileth

Again we fall into the murky waters of need, optional etc.
No one is forcing people to play the game at all. As it is, I very much enjoy GW. I would like to be able to play more of it. Adding 7 heroes would allow me to do that.

You can make everyone happy, but you can't make everyone happy all the time. It is risky to try to make decisions that appeal to all players equally. Don't fall into the trap of making decisions based on what causes the least amount of pain, because this can lead to a game that is just kind of "okay" and doesn't really excite anybody.
This includes the importance to keep something "elite".
If everything in a mmo gets casual it just wont survive.
With this I mean, there always will need to be the unreachable looking goal, without it its just another 'play for weekend don't care after' type of game.

As for the Heroes, I got another question for you.
What if Anet never introduced heroes at all, since players where able to play throughout Prophecies and Factions without them?

Mineria · Nov 30, 2007, 01:34 PM // 13:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

Maple Story = Win

Not to offend, but the graphics looks like they are made for someone in kindergarten.

freekedoutfish · Nov 30, 2007, 01:48 PM // 13:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mineria

As for the Heroes, I got another question for you.
What if Anet never introduced heroes at all, since players where able to play throughout Prophecies and Factions without them?

The we would have had endless threads saying "improve the hench AI", "let me change my hench's skills", "let me customise my henches". They would have been added anyway because Anet couldn't deny the hench AI sucked any longer.

But even without heroes, people would still have used AI to the same extent. This idea that heroes killed PUGs is nonsense. Its the rude and arrogant behaviour and the LONG, LONG, LONG times to form PUGs that put people off.

I spent ages in GWEN last night getting a party for a dungeon because everyone was doing the other ones and by the time we got in and did it, it was midnight and I had to sleep.

Thats why peopl run to heroes and henches.

Olim Chill · Nov 30, 2007, 02:06 PM // 14:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mineria

Not to offend, but the graphics looks like they are made for someone in kindergarten.

More like Pre-K:

Quote:

This idea that heroes killed PUGs is nonsense.

.

Agreed. NPCs don't kill PUGs, people kill PUGs.

Faer · Nov 30, 2007, 02:54 PM // 14:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smile Like Umean It

So why is this one 23 pages and still going?

Out of my jurisdiction. I've been asking myself the same question though.

AuraofMana · Nov 30, 2007, 05:06 PM // 17:06

I don't get why they are stuck at a middle ground:
1. Give more heroes and make players able to equip 7.
2. Take out heroes, or give some sort of bonus or incentive for players to play with other people. I am aware of the better drop (still not sure if it's just because you are seeing more items being dropped), but when you are going for a mish or quest, you aren't really going for the mods. Saving time on mish + quest = more time to farm or w/e you do to make gold.

I'd prefer more people-to-people interaction, but it's quite hard to do in an instanced game and there is also the pug skillbars....

Chico · Nov 30, 2007, 06:10 PM // 18:10

As our loyal hero companions, let us use them to carry, let's say, 5 items each?
There's no use for so many heroes, there's no point in given them all good equipment and runes. It'd be sweet if each hero could carry 5 or 2 or 1 item for us (not weapons, which they can already carry if you like juggling stuff around)

Make all heroes useful, give us a reason to have all the heroes unlocked, give us Hero-Storage! ^^

oh, I though this was the make-a-wish-thread.

mafia cyborg · Nov 30, 2007, 06:29 PM // 18:29

if people don't want to use 7 heroes can carry on using 3.
i personally play GW as a casual player and find it hard gettin into pugs anyway.....so the hero limitation just means i have to use hench.
i would love to be able to make my own builds.....i 'm constantly workin on the best 3 hero build....it's what makes gw fun to me.
heroes = best thing about GW compared to other mmorpgs.
buildwars rules

Vinraith · Nov 30, 2007, 07:08 PM // 19:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mineria

Btw. didn't Anet make Slavers Exile so you can h+h it?
Takes some time, but it can be done.

Yes, they did, and they aren't thanked often enough for it by folks like me. I really appreciate that they did that in GWEN. In general I'm quite happy with Anet's design decisions, and in threads like this one I (and I suspect most of those like me) don't really want to come off as hostile to Anet. This is a really great game, I wouldn't care enough to participate in 20-something page threads about what could be done to make it that little bit better for me if it weren't.

Elite missions and HM are after-the-fact bonus content. I acknowledge that. I don't think I have a "right" to that content, necessarily. It would, however, be awfully nice to have the option to take a run at it with a full hero party. To be honest, I'd be happy with it if elite areas and HM were the only places you could get a full hero party. We aren't asking them to make it easy for us, it'd just be nice if solo players had a shot at these areas.

Bryant Again · Nov 30, 2007, 07:12 PM // 19:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vinraith

Elite missions and HM are after-the-fact bonus content. I acknowledge that. I don't think I have a "right" to that content, necessarily. It would, however, be awfully nice to have the option to take a run at it with a full hero party. To be honest, I'd be happy with it if elite areas and HM were the only places you could get a full hero party. We aren't asking them to make it easy for us, it'd just be nice if solo players had a shot at these areas.

With DoA, FoW and the UW, you just need one other buddy. FoW and UW are actually relatively breezy if you and your partner know what's up and how to set up your builds.

After the slight nerf to DoA for NM people, it's actually been pretty playable with 6 heroes. Pretty cool, but can at times be a pain in the ass.

I've seen *a* group beat the Deep with either 9 heroes 3 people or 4 people 8 heroes, don't remember.

Isileth · Nov 30, 2007, 07:57 PM // 19:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mineria

As for the Heroes, I got another question for you.
What if Anet never introduced heroes at all, since players where able to play throughout Prophecies and Factions without them?

As fish said, we would just have a whole lot more improve the hench threads. Better AI, better skill bars, changeable skill bars etc.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vinraith

Yes, they did, and they aren't thanked often enough for it by folks like me. I really appreciate that they did that in GWEN. In general I'm quite happy with Anet's design decisions, and in threads like this one I (and I suspect most of those like me) don't really want to come off as hostile to Anet. This is a really great game, I wouldn't care enough to participate in 20-something page threads about what could be done to make it that little bit better for me if it weren't.

I fully agree, I think GW is a great game. If it wasnt I would just leave.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

With DoA, FoW and the UW, you just need one other buddy. FoW and UW are actually relatively breezy if you and your partner know what's up and how to set up your builds.

After the slight nerf to DoA for NM people, it's actually been pretty playable with 6 heroes. Pretty cool, but can at times be a pain in the ass.

I've seen *a* group beat the Deep with either 9 heroes 3 people or 4 people 8 heroes, don't remember.

The problem with that is you still need another player.
One thats on at the same time as you, one thats ok with you going afk for 15-20 mins at a time.

This is one of the main reasons I want 7 heroes, because in my 2 years playing I havent found anyone who fits in with me.
Heroes are there whenever I need them, they are happy to wait while I go afk.

But due to that I miss out on parts of the game. Having 7 heroes would change that.